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Author Topic: Offwidth Hardman Training Circuit  (Read 6572 times)
mungeclimber
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« on: November 20, 2007, 05:27:45 PM »

Chingando is listed in the Reid guide as part of the official offwidth hardman training circuit.

well maybe unofficial.

So awhile back somone posted this list and Russ added to it, and I saved it to my HD, thinking at some point I would like to try most of the climbs (with the loving safety of condoms and a toprope).


Here it is for discussion, slander, and general thrashing...

Quote
>
> 5.11d  Death Crack   Vern Clevinger.  Tuolome Meadows classic.
> Not much offwidth necessary.  A couple of #4 Camalots and a #6
> friend (Yates) ought to cover the widest parts.
>
> 5.11c  Easy Wind    ?  Tuolome Meadows.  Impressive and
> beautiful, overhanging fist crack.  The widest part doesn't
> have to be offwidthed.  Carry 4 pieces in the 5 to 6 inch
> range.
>
> 5.11a  Cream      Mark Klemens classic.  Carry many 5 and 6
> inch pieces, as well as stuff up to 7 or 8 inches.
>
> 5.11a  Blind Faith  Kauk (and I think Bard).  There are
> actually 4 pitches of offwidth on this route, 5.11a, 5.10c,
> 5.10b, 5.9 (the last pitch of the regular route, which the
> guidebook mis-rates).
>
> 5.11a  Power Point    Braun and Cosgrove.   This pitch is
> mostly wide-fists.  The offwidth section is short and is
> protected by a bolt, but having a #3 Bigbro would surely help
> alot too. Bring as many #4 Camalots and #4 Friends as you can
> get your hands on.
>
> 5.10d  Twilight Zone   Chuck Pratt.  Number 3 Bigbros are the
> ticket here.  About 4 of these will make this route quite save.
> Bring a #4 Camalot too, and some smaller (hand sized) stuff for
> near the top.  Barry Bates told me that when Pratt lead this,
> he went all the way past the widest stuff without protection
> (about 40 feet up?). He then yelled down to someone on the
> ground to run to his car and get a big piton.  So Pratt hung on
> while they fetched the piton (bong I suppose), and then he
> pulled it up with the rope and wanked it in!
>
> 5.10d  Steppin Out    Mark Klemens.  Off on the right side of
> Reed's.  Bring as many 6 inch pieces as you can get your hands
> on.  It is possible to push a 6 inch Friend (Yates) practically
> up the entire pitch.  The crux is at the very top, and can be
> protected by a #4 Camalot.  I heard a story that Earl Wiggens
> lead this without any big gear!  I guess all he got in was
> something at the chockstone (half way), and the quarter-inch
> bolt 20 feet below the top!
>
> 5.10c  Edge of Night   Bridwell, et. al.  Hideous, flared,
> greasy, overhanging 5 inch (my worst size) section.  This
> entire pitch could probably be lead with just #4 Camalots
> (about 5 of them)!
>
> 5.10c  Wild Turkey     Dale Bard.  Way out on Autobahn
> Buttress.  Bring as many 5 and 6 inch pieces as you can get
> your hands on.  I think I had about 8 - 10 pieces in this size
> range.
>
> 5.10c  Mental Block    Bard, Bridwell.  Two offwidth pitches.
> Impressive line, but old, death rappel anchors (the bolt
> hangers are home-made; single strips of metal bent at a slight
> angle such that a downward load caused a force DIRECTLY OUT on
> the bolt!).
>
> 5.10c  The Wedge       Jardine.  I think this should be called
> "The Wedgie".  The 5.11 face climbing at the bottom of this is
> NOT well protected.  The wide part starts at hand size, and
> gradually gets wider up to 9 inches, so bring an assortment.
>
> 5.10b  Slack, Left Side   Bridwell (?).  Bring stuff to 7 or 8
> inches, and be sure to save some big stuff for near the top of
> the pitch.  My friend lead this and thought he was through the
> worst of it, after climbing a squeeze chimney.  He left most of
> his big stuff in the middle of the lead, thinking he wouldn't
> need it.  He was rudely surprised at the top, where he had to
> do a scarey runout on a slightly overhung, 7 inch section.
>
> 5.10b  Ahab.  Bridwell & Sacherer (spelling?).  Everyone has
> seen this route just to the right of Moby Dick.  No mysteries
> here.
>
> 5.10b  Vendetta   Robbins.  Flared, 5-5 1/2 inches.  Bring a
> couple of pieces to 6 inches for the bottom, and save about 4
> #4 Camalots for the flared crux.
>
> 5.10a  Chingando   Pratt.   Lots of stuff in the 5-6inch range,
> then maybe some stuff to 8 inches for the squeeze at the top.
>
> 5.10a  Crack of Despair   Sacherer.   A barrel of laughs.
> Include some gear up to 7 or 8 inches.
>
> 5.10a  Right Side of Absolutely Free.    Klemens. Another
> barrel of laughs.  This felt like one of the hardest offwidths
> I had ever done.  Bring as much big stuff as you can get your
> hands on (all sizes).  A real puker.
>
> 5.10a  Reed's Direct   (Robbins?).  One 6 inch piece will
> probably protect the crux flare at the top of the last pitch.
>
> 5.10a  Reed's Left  (Sacherer?).  Beautiful, classic, direct
> line. Bring lots of stuff in the 6 inch range.
>
> 5.10a  Doggie Do   (?).  Good beginner's offwidth.5.10a
>
> 5.9    Moby Dick Left  (Sacherer ?).  A friend and I climbed
> Ahab, Moby Center, and then this all in the same day.  By the
> time we got to this we were laughing hysterically - "only a
> 5.9!!!!"

I'll add:

Left side of Gollum (roofy and dry in the rain)
Left side of the Hourglass (too far to hike)
10.96 (all time fave)
Orange Juice Ave (crappy leaning mess)
Secret Storm (camp 4 choss)
Bad Ass Momma (super TR or solo)
River Boulder (slick wide hand/fist to flare)
Cool Wheel (roofy wide hands?)
Rt. Side of the Pharoahs Beard? (forgot)
Owl Roof (famous butt shot)
Excalibur (kind of a wall route)
Space Invaders (hideous lieback?)
Crucifix (mostly fist)
Kaukulator (short OW, dry when wet)
Get Right with Galens Crack (short top rope)
Wild Thing (rock fall death now?)
Jaws (roof, hard, and then harder.  TR w/ backrope & lead)

And the next day I did......
adios,
Russ
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mungeclimber
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« Reply #1 on: November 21, 2007, 05:21:33 PM »

39 views, and not a single comment?

wow either it is spot on, or no one cares.


maybe y'all are copying it down, and we'll be vying for space on the training circuit.

Wide Rennaissance as they say.
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RussWalling
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« Reply #2 on: November 21, 2007, 06:29:21 PM »

did you post something?
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mungeclimber
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« Reply #3 on: November 21, 2007, 07:43:50 PM »

oh, that's harsh.

no FAs for you, two weeks!
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RussWalling
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« Reply #4 on: November 21, 2007, 08:52:09 PM »

ok... where did this list come from?  It calls for a lot of pro for some of those things..... "as many as you can get your hands on"?

Please advise.....
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mungeclimber
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« Reply #5 on: November 22, 2007, 12:53:56 AM »

I can't remember. either rec.climbing or supertaco, stand by one, I'll run a search on the text.
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mungeclimber
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Posts: 542


« Reply #6 on: November 22, 2007, 01:03:18 AM »

are you giving me excrement because the original list is yours too?  frick if I remember.

don't leave me dangling like a pecker in the breeze here.

i can't recover the thread from taco, nor is it coming up in google or live.com searches.
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RussWalling
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« Reply #7 on: November 22, 2007, 09:46:00 AM »

no excrement... just wondering.  I've seen the list before somewhere too... maybe rec.climbing?

That list will need some fixin'... I'll go over it again and apply some notes.  If any of yoos have done any of the routes, chime in.  Maybe we'll get a real list of the fabled "hardman offwidth circuit".
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mungeclimber
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Posts: 542


« Reply #8 on: November 25, 2007, 08:39:53 PM »

"Maybe we'll get a real list of the fabled "hardman offwidth circuit"."

boo yah!

zactly!

though we may never agree, we'll have a hell of time 'testing' the list in the mean time.


[insert lame internet "woot" here]
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grug
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« Reply #9 on: December 07, 2007, 12:48:34 PM »

Two offwidths I remember (vaguely, of course) doing in the Valley that I never hear of much - Gold Rush and Plumbline.  Anybody done 'em?
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RussWalling
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« Reply #10 on: December 07, 2007, 12:59:20 PM »

Gold Rush is one of my faves!  Done it a few times... how about Cromagnon Capers?  Another good one.
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Jaybro
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« Reply #11 on: December 09, 2007, 07:05:54 PM »

Goldthruch is an absolutely horrible  size for my, mere patrician hands; i find it problematic.

Plumbline, on the other  hand, (we're talking El-rock,right?) I thought was really fucking hard.  I screamed up it onsight  circa '78, ebs, no big cams, etc.  I have been quoted as saying, "that's the hardest thing I've done in my life," upon reaching the anchor.  There are things I've done since that I think are a bit harder, but that one does stand out.

I thought galens's was hard, but it wasn't a time when I was at my best, either...
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scuffy b
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« Reply #12 on: December 19, 2007, 03:59:03 PM »

Twice just this week, talking with people one might think would know better,
I was told that almost every offwidth in Yosemite is left-side in.
In the first instance (k-man was the villain) I rattled off:
Rt side Hourglass, Chingando, Edge of Night, Secret Storm, Mental Block.
He stopped me and said Mental Block is Left side in, no doubt about it.
Whaat? Do I have to change my dream patterns all around?

Ran into Peter Haan last night. He's pretty amused at my late life conversion
to wideness. Also thinks Yosemite is predominantly Left side in, but made no
wild claims. I was surprised to hear that he didn't know anything about
Mental Block, though he's climbed Tilted Mitten. He never climbed Cream,
I believe he said (I'm hoping my crack machine has a Cream simulator move.)

If anybody wants to check out my crack machine, please invite yourself.
If you want to get on a list to be invited, let me know.
It needs more traffic, and it keeps getting harder.
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RussWalling
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« Reply #13 on: December 19, 2007, 04:02:06 PM »

Mental Block is right side in... big right facing corner.....
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scuffy b
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« Reply #14 on: December 19, 2007, 04:05:43 PM »

Yeah, I figured it was impossible for a corner like that to have a crack splitter-style
instead of flake-style.
And I realize most people think of a splitter as not being in a corner.
I just meant perpendicular to the plane of the cliff rather than parellel.
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AlexC
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« Reply #15 on: December 23, 2007, 09:56:51 PM »

Re the origins of the list... I asked about the Yosemite Hardman Offwidth Training Circuit a long time ago, I think it was on rec.climbing. I was told that there was no official list (other than Chingando as mentioned in the Reid guide) but someone posted that list of OWs as a starting point.

The list, plus my additions collected from various sources since then, is available here:

http://www.monsteroffwidth.com/climbing-misc/yosemiteoffwidths/YosemiteOffwidths.html
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mungeclimber
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« Reply #16 on: December 23, 2007, 10:43:11 PM »

no official circuit? 

pshah!

we just haven't found the correct sources and routes to identify the tru training circuit.

it all starts with Aunt Fanny's Pantry

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nutjob
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« Reply #17 on: February 29, 2008, 03:46:27 PM »

Alright folks, where do y'all put Twinkie on this list? Is the '87 meyers/reid appendix the best advice out there?
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Melini
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« Reply #18 on: February 29, 2008, 04:14:00 PM »

Alright folks, where do y'all put Twinkie on this list? Is the '87 meyers/reid appendix the best advice out there?

My general rule in Yosemite is that if it's obscure, add a couple of letter grades...at least. 

The 5.8 first pitch of Twinkie was definately obscure enough for me to vote for descending and climbing Outer Limits or somesuch although that wasn't the original plan.  YMMV.
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spyork
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« Reply #19 on: March 02, 2008, 10:49:31 AM »

Nutjob led Cookie Left yesterday. I hear he is going for Vendetta tomorrow. Pictures at 11.
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Jaybro
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« Reply #20 on: March 02, 2008, 11:47:04 AM »

Those of us stuck behind books and computers expect a TR, Steve!
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nutjob
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Posts: 56


« Reply #21 on: March 04, 2008, 01:20:02 PM »

Sorry dudes and dudettes, I got the perfect excuse to procrastinate roping up on Vendetta...  my daughter had a fever so I cut the trip short. I was damn lucky. Today is the first day it doesn't hurt to bend my knees, and that was only 25 feet of crack. I might invest in a pair of them neoprene things.

But the good news is I have time to adopt the proper grim and serious attitude that will be required when I put Vendetta into submission. But I have to admit that the roof at the very top of that thing looks pretty fricken ugly. Is it wrong to want it?
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RussWalling
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« Reply #22 on: March 04, 2008, 01:29:28 PM »

Vendetta is a dick wrenching mega classic.....

but in reality, it is not that bad for the grade.  The last pitch, 10c variation, seemed kinda hard, but is really only 10a if there was no dirt or leaves or sticks in it.
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RussWalling
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« Reply #23 on: March 04, 2008, 01:32:06 PM »

the OHTC implies that we are "training" or practicing for something..... what are we training for?

If you do the "circuit" then I think you have done all the OW's too... what is left?  The Owl?  Jaws?  Retirement?  the Gristle?
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nutjob
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« Reply #24 on: March 04, 2008, 02:15:38 PM »

What is left is to bask in the glory! You know, pretend not to notice the hushed reverence accorded by fellow dysfunctional units.

But seriously, if you reach the top rung of that ladder, it's time to get more creative. You know, like, re-do all the classics but this time naked and covered with peanut butter.
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Ed Hartouni
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Living in the past


« Reply #25 on: May 10, 2008, 10:40:18 PM »

Breaking news....

...scuffy TR'd Bad Ass Moma this afternoon before running off to the Mountain Room for a pre-mothers day dinner with the Lews...

the 6 minute ascent was videoed by Gary and will appear here before too long. I've got pictures too, but if any of this posting depends on me you'll have to wait 'till after my WDC trip (I'm back on Wed night, but will miss the wide sesh at Zanders).

It was a "Mr. Smooth" ascent...

B.A.M. is certainly on the OHTC...
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Jaybro
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« Reply #26 on: May 10, 2008, 11:25:34 PM »

Conrgats, Rasberry, Scuffy, Mr Smooth, B!
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Jaybro
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« Reply #27 on: May 12, 2008, 05:20:59 AM »

No film yet?

"before running off to the Mountain Room for a pre-mothers day dinner with the Lews..."
-that Rassberry Steve is a social Butterfly, I tell ya


PS Dr Ed, I don't think you're living in the past so much as living in your own time, that you make; there's an equation for it, I think...
« Last Edit: May 12, 2008, 05:23:08 AM by Jaybro » Logged
grug
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« Reply #28 on: May 12, 2008, 05:46:17 AM »

Scuffy's friggin' amazing.  He told me at the Woodson shindig that he was determined to teach himself to be a good OW climber...and BAM, he's there, including the ability to do BAM, one of the hardest offwidths around.
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Jaybro
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« Reply #29 on: May 12, 2008, 06:12:41 AM »

Imagine
what
he will do
in Vedauwoo
next August!
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gary carpenter
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« Reply #30 on: May 12, 2008, 07:44:15 AM »

Lucille is calling your name Scuffy!!!
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gary carpenter
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« Reply #31 on: May 12, 2008, 11:20:03 AM »

Bad Ass Momma on Mothers Day Eve May 10, 2008

.....or

Scuffy's Six Minutes of OW Fame!!

The Climb:  35 feet high with lots (10feet?) of overhang




Fish-Style ankle tape (required aid)


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scuffy b
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« Reply #32 on: May 12, 2008, 12:23:54 PM »

Thanks, Grug.

The obvious (to me) next step (aside from the obvious [Basket Case])
is to figure how to climb Bad Ass Mama on armbars.
This time was with calf locks and hand/fist stacks, then finishing with armbars etc.
The Other obvious next step is to go back and do a better job on Cream.
O Yeah, I tried to do inversions on B.A.M. but can't get my foot that high.
I probably wouldn't be able to sit up well enough, anyway.
Gary, Ed, Aaron, Jay, Russ and others, many thanks for all your encouragement.
sm
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grug
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« Reply #33 on: May 12, 2008, 01:36:59 PM »

You're making me feel like I gotta do something to get in better shape.  Like, maybe I'll start sprinting between the couch and the refrigerator.
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gary carpenter
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« Reply #34 on: May 12, 2008, 01:56:16 PM »

Scuffy's Six Minutes of Fame - Part 2





















« Last Edit: May 12, 2008, 07:15:24 PM by gary carpenter » Logged
gary carpenter
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« Reply #35 on: May 12, 2008, 01:58:18 PM »

It doesn't get any better than this!!

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Jaybro
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« Reply #36 on: May 12, 2008, 02:06:10 PM »

Nice photos, Gary!  (Need (img) tags, though)

Proud send scars, Scuffy!


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gary carpenter
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« Reply #37 on: May 12, 2008, 02:33:17 PM »

Jay,

I extracted the climbing images from the movie I shot.  I tried to use the img tags but they wouldn't work for some reason. After three attempts, I resorted to links.

We'll get the full six minute movie up eventually.

G

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scuffy b
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« Reply #38 on: May 12, 2008, 02:43:24 PM »

Let it be known, that for the gobi picture, I was OFF BELAY!!!!!!!!!

The picture of the crack without climber is a lot more impressive looking
than the ones with climber.
Funny how the thing went from Couldn't Do (FONGE) to Not Too Bad in a couple weeks
(just kidding, Jim. Don't hit me.)
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Jaybro
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« Reply #39 on: May 12, 2008, 04:23:55 PM »

Again, nice work Steve!



Gary,  got it now.  I was just trying to help.  Maybe our resident expert can make it good?


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scuffy b
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« Reply #40 on: May 12, 2008, 05:12:41 PM »

Thanks, Jaybro.

The Woodson Shindig was a year ago plus two weeks. That day, Grug showed me two offwidths that were
the hardest I'd done to that point. Then at Vedauwoo he led me up one that was the hardest I'd done to
that point.
When he told me he couldn't work out the schedule for Basket Case (having volunteered to climb it with
him was the cause of significant nervousness) I was really relieved, though I hope it didn't show.
It feels like a lot has happened in the last year. Over and over, I've been able to tell myself
that's the hardest OW you've ever, ever done.
As I was telling a friend the other night, if I ever get up a 5.12 again, it'll be an offwidth.
I never could have predicted myself making a prediction like that.
Makes me feel a little Manic.
Those things that shut me down in '06...they better be ready.
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gary carpenter
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« Reply #41 on: May 12, 2008, 06:25:51 PM »

Randy Leavitt on climbing Bad Ass Momma

"The next year, 1978, I was back in Yosemite to do some big wall routes. In the parking lot, Augie Klein, Gary Zaccor, Dave Diegleman, and John Yablonsky were having an animated conversation about a new offwidth climb called Bad Ass Mama. Despite the ominous stories that were circulating about how Bachar and Long ripped up their arms doing this climb, we decided to try it. On the way, Diegleman gave us a detailed account of how he thought he could offwidth it this time, but made it look more like a new swimming stroke! Once off the shuttle, Diegleman lead us down a path into the trees. This was one of my first trips to Yosemite and I was amazed how these people knew their to even the most obscure climbs. Random piles of horse dung meant we were not far from the stables. We took a left off the trail at the biggest pile and I was wondering how I would ever find this climb again, when suddenly we were there. The climb was overhanging and a bad size, but physically it wasn't as imposing as my mind had made it to be. I had my doubts though, it was rated 5.12.

After watching several admirable but painful attempts by the others, I told everyone about our handstacking technique. They were open to the general idea, but they argued that I would never be able to lead like that. I was not too confident, because I had very little to compare it with, but at least it did not look nearly as difficult as the parking lot roof crack.

I rigged a top-rope, and taped my hands in anticipation of a brutal attempt. The first few moves were fist jams widening to offwidth, but the transition to handstacks was an untried technique, so I downclimbed and re-examined my strategy. You have to let go with both hands in order to place them in a handstack, but my feet were below me not above me as with the roof climb. I reasoned that if I could get my leg locked at least as high as my waist, then I might be able to stay in the crack long enough to get a handstack. My lower foot at this point would stay low to give me added leverage. Next time up, I was mentally ready to try such a maneuver, so from the last fist jam, I leaned my body out as much as possible in order to get my right leg jammed in the crack above waist level. I found it was necessary to aim my foot directly below my lowest jam (this kept the leg jam high enough to be useful for placing the first handstack). At this point, the crack was only wide enough to accept a calf jam. As insecure as it felt, I was prepared to hang from it with confidence gained in the parking lot. With my right calf high and my left foot bracing low, I slapped my left palm into the left inside wall of the crack. Stacking my right hand next to it proved to be the hardest move because after that I could handstack with good intermediate leg locks. The crack started to widen, accepting now a fist jam stacked on top of a hand jam. My knees started locking inside the crack so well that I could easily let go with both hands and chalk up.

I discovered right off that a knee jam was twice as effective if I brought my toe back outside the crack to lever on the wall. As the crack continued to widen, I became confused as to what to do next. Hand/fist jams turned into fist/fist jams, while my knee jams got wider and less secure. Surprised at my progress, I let myself fall onto the top of the rope as I was figuring out how best to enter the next wide section that had become a squeeze chimney. On my next attempt, I tried switching from using my right leg in crack as I was Leavittating to using my left leg in the crack for the transition into the squeeze chimney. This sequence proved to be the key to the final section. After that I enthusiastically grunted up the squeeze slot to the top of Bad Ass Mama. Once I was on top, I had doubts that the climb was a 5.12, not because I had ever done a 5.12 that easily, but mainly because I had never done a 5.12 before! Yablonsky paid me a nice compliment later that night; I overheard him saying "Leavitt made it look like 5.8." A few months later, I returned back down that same horse dung trail to Bad Ass Mama and led it."
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RussWalling
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« Reply #42 on: May 13, 2008, 12:23:02 PM »

WAY TO GO SCUFF!!!!!!   I'm digging it man... Boss.... you are Heavy!
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scuffy b
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Posts: 425


« Reply #43 on: May 13, 2008, 01:29:29 PM »

I attribute it to the $62 prize for succeeding in the Diet Challenge.
thx
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goatboy
Did "Cream" naked
****
Posts: 351


« Reply #44 on: May 13, 2008, 07:25:54 PM »

Money well spent scuffy, you're gonna clean up in Vedauwoo this year.
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Jaybro
Wide Zombie
*
Posts: 1481



« Reply #45 on: May 13, 2008, 09:54:36 PM »

and the wind cries... Scuffyyyy!!!!!!

Drop me a line on Tripmaster...
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scuffy b
JayBro Status
*****
Posts: 425


« Reply #46 on: May 14, 2008, 02:23:27 PM »

I'm wondering whether Mr. Leavitt made a mistake in writing about Bad Ass Mama.
He says he used a calf lock to establish his first stack, inserting his leg just below
his fist jam.
I don't think his leg could have fit in there. He must have got the first stack like in the movie of Russ,
then used his first calf lock to move the first stack.
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Ed Hartouni
JayBro Status
*****
Posts: 485


Living in the past


« Reply #47 on: May 17, 2008, 12:31:33 AM »

the rope hangs a bit away from the climb!


scuffy has rather thin knees! into knee locks early


on cruise control


nearing the top


no explanation required


Gary does a good job too!


as did Aaron, I ran out of film though... I wasn't on the thing long enough for anyone to get any pictures worth anything... weak sauce.
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gary carpenter
5.9 Squeeze
**
Posts: 80


« Reply #48 on: May 17, 2008, 03:49:20 PM »

Scuffy's knee was officially measured at Zanderland Wednesday.  He weighs in at a svelte 3-7/8".  Alas my knee is 1/2" wider.

 
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Jaybro
Wide Zombie
*
Posts: 1481



« Reply #49 on: May 17, 2008, 04:04:50 PM »

mine was determined to be between the two,  eewww!  maybe I should phrase that differently...
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